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Hi there!Edit

David Brown 770 Selectamatic

Welcome

Welcome to the Tractor and Construction Plant Wiki, and thank you for your contributions! There's plenty of information to add to the project, so I hope you'll stay with us and help make many more improvements. The aim is to gather information on every make and model of Tractor and Plant as well as related material.

Recent changes is a great first stop, because you can see what pages other people have been editing, and where you can help.
Questions? You can ask at the Help desk or on the "discussion" page associated with each article, or post a message on my talk page!
Need help? The Community Portal has an outline of the site, and pages to help you learn how to edit.
Please sign in every time you edit, so that we can recognise you!

We're really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you!

- BulldozerD11 22:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Edit

Thanks for expanding list of Tractor Manufacturers and tidying up some of the AGCO article.

CommentEdit

Please note some of the layout may not follow Wikipedia policies, even though articles are based on existing wikipedia ones for well known firms (why re-invent the wheel), and lesser firms if they have avoided Afd on WP. Articles here CAN contain lists of models and other material that WP rejects. (if the lists get too big they will move to separate articles). The idea is to add articles with photos of all models (lesser ones just as Model groupings to save repartition of info & creating stubs). Any quires leave a note on the talk page for the relevant article or on my talk page if more general one.

Welcome & Happy editing - BulldozerD11 22:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Tractors listEdit

The layout started with just a list of UK and American makes as they predominate. As I found other makes of tractors at shows and started to expand the list I decided to add more but a lot are unlikely in the short term to get info on them (unless there is a WP article to base it on) As most of the I have books are Biased to the USA & UK, but then I found a very good one on European makes. With the TOC its easy to find others any way, and I was going to break it into regions, like the Manufacturers Navbox on on the tractor pages. I did consider making the list here or WP as a Sortable table then they work all ways. I'm going to add start and end dates to the entries a some stage. Was also partially to be different to WP.

I started this for several reasons, a lot of one make sites, Forums (great for some info but unstructured), and others just of photos, and I like wikipedia for the broad history and coverage but as Wikipedias polices limited what you can include in articles, and the issue of verification with some editors insisting that 'Fan' sites and others are not suitable to establish notability was going to limit what i could do on Wikipedia. Plus the new page AfD squad claim non notability for stub articles on Companies and non main stream pages to easily, yet they have articles on obscure streams in California, thousands of xyz is a village in ABC which are empty stubs, just to link to lists or major articles with minimal references but ok as its a well known company (but is a part copy of there PR). So when I found the Wikia site and you can create your own I just started it, . Also i have a large number of photos which are not suitable for filling WP article with, but are to illustrate individual machines, were the idea is that each one can have its own page (I.e the steam engines (tractors)) linked to its list page.

The plan is to copy some (more) of the articles for missing (on WP) firms from here to create a WP entry once they are a decent size and have good refs, but less the stuff relating to collecting of old tractors and other bits that not in WP's way of doing stuff, rather than start stubs and then have to fight a AfD battle each time. (about 1/3 of the pages have some WP content) But as model pages are added thats going down unless loads of new pages appear at WP to use.

I'm trying to create a template to ease creation of std page layouts for companies, Tractors, plant etc. But its not working yet (the page creation templates I based it on were a bit complex). And I canot decide on a format for the Info boxes fore the pages. Also Wikipedia templates dont all work on here straight away. (some like template convert were a mistake to try to port to here, as taken too much time up trying to fix)

BTW You can use any of my photos from here in Wikipedia articles as long as you credit them to me and Tractor Wiki (CC by SA 3.0). You can probably use Tractor Wiki as a inline ref in some articles that are on WP were Info from WP is not used in same article on here if short of refs.

Glad you like it, any feedback / comments on the overall layout are welcome. Any suggestions for the front page, as a make over is Due for the first anniversary I think. - BulldozerD11 23:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Fiat 25C + clean up Edit

Hi Scoty, I left the Fiat 25C page till I (or anybody else) writes an article on the tractor. Then the message can go on the talk page, as a note.

Good work I see you have started clean up on a few pages. There is plenty of pages with a {{cleanup}} tag's if you get writers block for new articles, that need some of the old wiki links removing, and in some cases irrelevant material cutting down or out. (from when I had a import campaign to fill red links in manufactures list to kick start the content)

The Navboxes probably need restructuring now they are filling out, so if you have any suggestions for improving layout let me know. The tractors one Needs a South American section, and Europe / Britain adjusting, and possibly North America (Canada an USA). So main sections are:

  • Europe
    • Britain
    • France
    • Germany
    • Italy
    • Scandinavia
    • Spain/Portugal
    • Greece/Turkey
  • Asia Australia & China / Far east
    • Australia
    • China
    • India
    • Japan
    • Korea
    • Pakistan
  • North America
    • America (USA)
    • Canada
  • South America (Argentina, Brazil, Chile + others)

Not sure about the Different Eras (<1940 /pre War, 1940>80 /post war , 1980+ /Modern), as a 3tds sub group level might be too much, or to put three tables inside 1 wrapper. ? Any ideas or suggestions for improvements ?

- BulldozerD11 20:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Countries & regions Edit

Hi Scoty, I'm Sorting some of the Categories out a bit and have Companies categorised by there Country of origin (based in) Category:Companies by country which then go into Category:Companies by region were we have ;

But I'm unsure if to put Category:Companies of India & Category:Companies of Pakistan into Asia or a new subgroup of ? . Also Norway, Finland, Sweden - Europe or Scandinavia ?

Thought I see what you think as you are adding in a lot of the manufacturers in smaller countries on to the List of Tractor Manufacturers. - BulldozerD11 20:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

OK I stick to bigger groupings of Europe & Asia in the terms as you say of Continents, to define the regions. - Thanks BulldozerD11 20:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Re 'Brands' / own brand makes for retailers Edit

The actual manufacturer can go in the list of manufactures, with a note that they build them for badging by the importer/ distributor. The Brands (list of brands) would probably be best in a separate list. In the actual linked article the lead paragraph should make it clear it a brand built by abc mfg co of Any town, China for "Wal-Mart" (usa) or "B&Q" (uk) etc.

The Categories includes Brands, but a lot of what were manufacturers are now just brands. Its confusing as some big names build & brand for each other. In this case the article on the model, should include the info. Also the manufacturers model list, can also note it (see Ford for the FW series).

Brands would probably be best in a sortable table: Brand name, built by, were built, markets sold in, dates, Notes (for misc info, e.g a web site link). even if no info its easier to add later into blank space. As the 2nd Half of the Wiki list is confusing (partially as has no explanation below heading and first items an article. But also the entries probably would make more sense listing the models. Heres Steiger which would make more sense as Steiger built > Ford :- FW 20 (Steiger abc123), FW 30, FW 40 and FW 60 for US Market & FW 30 & FW 60 for UK market. Again a table probably keeps info neater.

Thats my thoughts on it ( could bring the list in in 2 separate pages then rearrange them in stages ) in your sandbox (s) then past into the new page once tidied up. - BulldozerD11 21:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Manufacturers articlesEdit

I'm trying to fill out some of the missing ones, I note that the WP list has several red links ! Were there articles to them that got speedy deleted ? If so I wounder if we can get them back, as want to try for 1000+ articles by 10th April. I could just create a load of stubs on the 9000 red links currently listed but thats cheating a bit & a lot of the smaller makes the entries in the books are only 1 paragraph long any way. Are there any WP ones we have missed yet ?

The manufactures articles can have some new categories now "Companies founded in (year)", (year is in numbers) which go into Category:Companies by year of founding and may have more than one date if several founding firms in the on article or major name change. "(year) mergers" for listing major merger dates at Category:Mergers by year, also articles can be added to category:(year) disestablishments which goes in to category:Disestablishments by year (were the date is clear). Going to add similar to the tractor model pages for when introduced and when discontinued. I originally dropped some similar ones when importing articles but have now decided they are useful long term additions. As is the addition of the manufactures (commonly used name) to all related articles, as lower level (individual model/range/series) articles will populate them latter.

- BulldozerD11 16:00, 1 April 2009 (UTC) (PS please reply here as then makes more sense than split messages latter)

-- I don't believe any articles were marked for deletion in wikipedia; they just hadn't been created yet and the links were inserted, leaving the red link. Scoty6776 16:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

OK I was 'worried' some had gone, as most items had no wiki link brackets, but a few do. I'd not looked at the list very often so was not sure, and a lot of articles dont get categorised very well (if at all). Found a few more articles, on tractor models that were poorly categorised. Another user has some under creation, but not in the main space yet.
I've started filling in individual model pages with a model speck template {{Infobox Tractor}} (note the odd parameters not working correctly yet i.e status currently lists date instead of saying 'Discontinued' + Cab sections not displaying correctly).
If you use the template (copy and paste it to tractor model page) dont remove unused items they mainly auto blank if unused.
Nearly at 1000 pages but not quite there yet :(, Doing the models I have photos for first, or plenty of date.
A few IP editors have created virtually empty/ useless pages but they will disappear when I add template & proper data for them. BTW A new wikia feature (Bot) issues them with an automate welcome message, signed by me
- BulldozerD11 17:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Tata group template Edit

I've created a outline template from the Fiat one for {{Tata group}} , The headings may need adjusting, to suit structure of the group, but basically it will allow the related companies & brands of the group to be linked (in all related articles). Main subsidiaries / divisions, Joint ventures, Taken over companies, and Brands can all go in it. Items like Jaguar which are not on this wiki can be listed but not linked (Im avoiding adding cars & buses in detail if possible as other wikis cover them, but not removing them from imported articles relating to manufacturers as history is partially relevant). - BulldozerD11 22:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

CategoriesEdit

A lot of categories are not defined yet and Categorised, I had a a the other week at reducing the list, and removing some 'duplicates/ similar'. This new cat adding button partially helps but also causes problems as they no longer show up red in some previews and it offers suggestions which include non created (defined) ones.

I've deleted the Skid steer one. You canot redirect cats. I created a lot of similar/related ones early on, as the software did not suggest them till defined. Thy are something that needs a good clear up once a month. see Special:Categories for full listing, and Special:WantedCategories for un-defined ones ( first list is better as you can see if similar ones exist easier) - BulldozerD11 22:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

New articles Edit

Good work adding missing firms like Wagner, that was one I kept thinking about adding, but had not found an article to base it on. I added wikilinks to the model list so the individual models can have a page with an info box and use the data listed on Tractordata.com or the PDF original Data sheet (copy). I've not seen a Wagner in the UK to photograph yet (there are the odd one or two I think. I'm working on adding Nav boxes for the model ranges for the main makes e.g. {{Ford tractor range}}. Started a few individual model pages now, and also individual machine pages.

I modified the tractors Box to put the Time period headings across the page (but canot get it on a coloured band ! ). Do you think this version is better or the old one with the time periods at the side as a second strip of labels ?

I tweaked some of the pages to remove PR type statements, and adjust the layout a bit & add some more links (current & future) + categories. Note: categories when defined, also need adding to at least one parent category (several for some groupings). I had a session doing the Founded & disestablished ones, last night. But a lot of company names / brand ones need doing and i'v got the tractor model pages to do.

I'm going to add Logos to the company articles but need to come up with a free use rational thats applicable to all Company logos instead of the Wikipedia case of complex reason being filled out for each. Any suggestions welcome.

- Keep up the good work adding all Asian, Indian & other companies to the list. When we get to 2500 pages we can add the Wiki to the w:Big_Wikis list at wikia. We are already bigger than a lot of the other Automotive ones now. Most are computer Game related. - BulldozerD11 19:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Tractor model pages Edit

Any suggestions to improve general layout or missing sections on the individual tractor model pages ? Thanks for adding the missing 'Year cats to some of them. I'm working on the popular manufacturers Model range boxes now to help link them up.

The Steam engine pages probably want/need there own category rather than using the 'Tractors by model number' as the number is the engines serial no. I'd only created a couple of trial pages yet on the steam ones. Had a suggestion from an editor on WP to add a few more items to the info box as well ! do you think they are OK, too big or can have more fields added ?.

(PS there are a few errors in the tractor one it displays the Cab heading at the wrong time, and needs a default no image graphic building in).

-- BulldozerD11 21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

New editorsEdit

I might try to get some new editors from the clubs at the shows, as this years events have started now with a load of steam rallies this next month. I'm still adding last years photos and i've taken over a 1000 this last month (not all usable). If i can get somebody to write some of the club & collection articles it will increase the coverage & search engine hits.

-- BulldozerD11 21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I've put out the plug to try and get some ag/tractor folks from other sites over here, too. Don't know if it's worked or not. Scoty6776
I tried on a Forum that that specialised in plant, but but some uses felt I was trying to 'poach' users. I looked at others but wading through loads of rambling posts to find interesting threads & people was taking too much time. I did have a go on one that had a few very good knowledgeable posters, but was perhaps a bit too upfront asking people for info/help. But I did not want to be seen to be privately asking users directly, but was actually told to ask users privately by PM which I felt was wrong as that is soliciting individuals rather than a public 'General' open request for more info on particular topics that were being discussed. A few users have contributed briefly, but not regularly :(
What i dont want to attract is the users who publish material from else ware on the WEB without crediting the source. Also not bothered about being a forum (Dont whant the "I've got an exz tractor, were can I get an oil filter" posts, directly competing with them, but gathering the info that is missing from wikipedia on the company & model histories or is considered as not suitable for WP (i.e Lists & technical specs & non noteabel makes & brands) and compile the lists (data base) of surviving examples of early models. A lot of info one make 'club' experts have is what is "Wanted" as we should be able to get a wider audience, covering all makes here. Filling out details for more individual models will help get better search engine results for detailed model searches (hope fully).
- Good look spreading the word - thanks BulldozerD11 11:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Logos Edit

Hi Scoty - Re: Deutz-Allis - please note 'Logos' need a copyright Tag adding just like any other photo/image on upload. But as they are copyright and/ or trade marks of the respective company that needs acknowledging in the tag. I had been looking at adding a new tag to the quick upload box just for logos, as the Wikipedia tags too complex and filling out all that individual 'rational' for each one is a pain. I've copied a load of the Logos for companies from WP but decided not to upload them till I'd fix the tag for a simple(ified) version. Here is the {{Logo fair use}} current (modified copy) from WP on, and the complicated WP rational {{Logo fur}} which i'm reluctant to use (Over the top).

Comments / your opinion on the issue/options welcome (wikia policy tends to refer to wikipedia guidelines (see help page), but some individual Wikia are rather lax in the interpretation/policing of copyright issues). - BulldozerD11 19:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting web site Edit

Hi- Scoty I found this interesting site that similar with company histories and spec/data pages for each model - http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Traktorenlexikon Has some useful lists of models - Rest of info is not a lot of use to me as i don;t read German. But some of spec pages may be useful & for photos of the german models as GFDL as part of Wikipedia so can use images.

- BulldozerD11 17:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

LogosEdit

I've added a new tag {{logo fair use}} to the drop down license list on the picture upload/insert button so its easier to add logos (the copyright box is currently too complicate but I fix it later as its a wikipedia template).

Note: I like the tables with the model numbers in, but can you add an image/photo column to the heading, or remove the extra || that creates a empty column/cell on the end of every line in the table. See examples below:-

{|class="wikitable"
|+ with ghost (empty)column
! Col 1<br>Model no !! Col 2<br>Engine !! col 3<br>Misc info
|-
| item 1 || item 2 || item 3 ||
|-
|}

Gives this

with ghost column
Col 1
Model no
Col 2
Engine
col 3
Misc info
item 1 item 2 item 3

But missing the || off like this

{|class="wikitable"
|+ with-out ghost column
! Col 1 !! Col 2 !! col 3  
|-
| item 1 || item 2 || item 3 
|-
| abcd || mno || xyz (note no || after item 3)
|}

Gives :-

with-out ghost column
Col 1 Col 2 col 3
item 1 item 2 item 3
abcd mno xyz
(note no || after item 3)

Alternatively adding an extra heading

{|class="wikitable"
|+ with image  column
! Col 1 <br> Model !! Col 2<br>Engine !! col 3<br>misc info  !! Col 4<br>photo
|-
| item 1 || item 2 || item 3 || {{noimage}}
|-
|}

Gives:-

with image column
Col 1
Model
Col 2
Engine
col 3
misc info
Col 4
photo
item 1 item 2 item 3 Image needed LHB


With no blank column on the end.


Thanks, I dont want to follow you updating all your model number tables, I have fixed the odd one, but removing blank columns a slow job on the big tables, so adding a new heading an easier fix on the existing ones.

Good work adding all the new firms - BulldozerD11 17:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

-- Thanks! I'll add the Photo column... I had thought about it before when I was looking at some of the pages you've worked, but hadn't followed through. I have used the Traktorenlexikon wiki on a few pages and referenced it as well. I don't know German, either, but have gleaned some good info. Thanks and good work! Scoty6776 17:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for fixes Edit

Thanks for fixing the columns in the tables. I must add similar tables to some of my earlier manufacturers pages. As well as write some more Tractor range templates for popular makes, with a few model articles started.

I must have missed your ref to the Traktorenlexicon on pages, i found it via wikipedia > the german page for Lanz and a search for a strange German Lanz machine I saw at a show, but remember seeing it earlier and ignoring it as it was not in english. I like the spec page they have but cannot understand a lot of the headings and when you look in depth a lot of them have very little info filled in which is a shame. I'd like to get the create page to work like that one dose but having several Standard pages makes it harder. I tried to add a photo to the site but could not find the upload bit in german. The specs with photos and logos will be useful when I run out of tractors to photograph in the UK to help fill in the missing models.

I have converted the {{wikipedia}} template to {{Traktorenlexikon}} but it needs a fix to the link to go to wikibooks and the correct article / page. I left a few messages linking to here on the site so will see if any english speaking germans reply !

The search engine stats say we have had nearly 1000 hits from google germany. We keep getting a few editors having a little go here and there. Hope fully the more models we add & photos the more search engine results we get which will attract people with interest in a particular make or model to add there knowledge.

Thanks again - BulldozerD11 19:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


Model listings Edit

Hi Scotty - Good work adding more models and some images to them. I've got rather a backlog of photos to add for UK models, But started a few pages with some photos uploaded by another user which were not used in article before they dropped off the new files list. Still a few left yet to start.

I see you updated the Chamberlain Industries page to a table. I was thinking of creating one but was thinking it needs a Date introduced & discontinued column. With the Older makes and models a production figures column in the table may be an idea and put the misc notes on the end after the photo, this could contain refs or web links etc.

Any other useful data that you can think of to include in the tables ?

- BulldozerD11 17:23, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Adding the extra columns would be fine with me, and it provides some good, interesting information as well. Scoty6776 12:42, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
Ok thanks, as combined with your use of the Sortable style table adding dates gives a better idea of model progression when sorted by date. Also useful to collect info prior to creating individual model pages for each one. - BulldozerD11 13:00, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

CategoriesEdit

Wish they would fix the Add category button to work like the Wikipedia on and allow removal as well before adding extra functions.

I see you removed some of the 'bad' categories that got created when auto suggest was not working or my badly spelt ones. I created a 'bot' account to use Autowiki browser to go round and clean some of the bigger ones up but have not sat down and worked out how to 'program' it to search them out and update them yet.

- BulldozerD11 17:23, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

 Agree...  Scoty6776 13:00, October 14, 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for updates Edit

Thanks for updating the Australian articles I started from the photo collection added by User:Steiger 350. I only have a very vague knowledge of them, from short articles in some of the books. When i get time i may get round to looking out articles from some of my magazine collection. But Having a reasonable start to an article hopefully will eventually attract more users to expand them from Australia as we appear to get a fair number of hits from Australian and NZ search engines. - BulldozerD11 17:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've collected photos and info for quite some time. I also have some books I could pull out. "Ultimate Tractor Power: Articulated Tractors of the World, Vols. 1 & 2" by Peter Simpson are some awesome books on the Articulated 4WD tractors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoty6776 (talkcontribs)
Be good if you can reference some of the facts & add missing models. I see you grouped some of the additions in some of the categories like Articulated tractors earlier. Thanks - BulldozerD11 16:43, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Convert function Edit

Hi scoty.

The convert function (templates) is loaded on here but there is a fault in it that i was hoping would get fixed when they upgraded the system (but it dident) So i need technical support to 'fix it'. Can you just comment them out rather than deleting it entirely please, then it will be easier to add back later if you are cleaning up the page. I stopped deleting them originally on import as like a lot of the categories on imported pages i'd deleted i then found on some of the earlier pages I was adding back again as the site grew.

Thanks for fixing some of the duplicate categories / minor variations and my typo's. You must be on the US English with changing S > Z in some words where as my British English spell checker says Z > S, so I ignore them or we could go round in circles. Country name links can be left and redirected to a central page with links to wikipedia and later they can go to a Tractor wikia page easily by removing the redirect was one idea I had ?

Like the interesting joint ventures you have added recently. - BulldozerD11 19:31, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, will do! Scoty6776 20:13, October 13, 2009 (UTC)


Bus manufacturers Edit

I've started the {{Bus manufacturers}} template and added it to some of the 'Bus' articles and added them to it. Can you add it to new Bus builder articles and add them to it like the tractor and truck ones. It may need updating in layout as it grows. Thanks - BulldozerD11 21:26, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

 Thanks, I will.  Scoty6776 20:07, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


Tractor model categoriesEdit

Were are the individual tractors articles going to go now you have removed the individual tractor model categories ? The model article being the 'intro item' for the category. Remember that we have more levels of information than WP, as the model history pages are not the bottom level. - Companies > Model ranges > Individual or families of models > Individual Machines.

I agreed the other day when you removed the registration number category from articles that perhaps they were unnecessary, (I had thought of adding the photos for each vehicle to that group eventually, but an image titled category may be more appropriate) - BulldozerD11 18:01, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

I didn't realize that it was beneficial for each tractor model to have its own category. Where you had specific restored tractors (by VIN or Serial numbers) linked to a Tractor model category, I didn't do anything. The others, I was grouping into the Series (MF 1000 Series) rather than separate categories for each model.... i.e. 1070, 1090... Let me know what you prefer, and I'll follow along. Again, sorry if I've disrupted your planning. Scoty6776 18:39, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Hi Scoty, I was having a clear up of Massey Ferguson and creating the series pages after Neil young added a load of MF photos to start pages. I had swapped all the MF categories pages back to the Un hythenated version of Massey Ferguson the other day (I may have started moving them in the past to the hythenated one - doh!) as MF now appear and various publications also to favour the Un - version, with early tractors having a mix of legends. I've just rolled some back some of your changes as wikias system wont let you add cats when in diff mode ! My PC stalling every so often is not helping my patience. Its easier to add the Tractors by model number by add cat, than type out the different descriptions each time by opening an edit window etc
Dont get me wrong a lot of the updates of the Categories are Good, as we have developed older pages need updating with new groupings that its become desirable to add but your removal of all the own page ones is a pain. I should probably have defined some of them earlier but it easier to define one of a block of related cats and the just paste it in but often I have a page on the clip board, so leave it for latter ( hence them not being done). The original plan was for some of the Iboxes to automatically add some of the items into categories. (if i could have got the create a std page to work it would be easier, but with 1/2 a dozen standard pages irts not so simple)
This reply has taken over 1/2 hour to do,, And I've only created a couple of pages today so I've spent most of the last 4 hours achieving very little trying to follow your update category updates. - BulldozerD11 22:11, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Logos & ImagesEdit

Links had been left as they are suitable to add either our own or wikipedia images with to the articles. Some of the earlier article have no inline references as I striped them out when copying in a mistaken idea that it was clearer. Adding them backs going to be a pain, in some cases It may be easier to merge the Wikipedia page in again, but risk losing rewrites and additions - BulldozerD11 18:01, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

(Note my PC is on go slow & images are not uploading at the moment some the time to wikia ) --- I'll take greater care and not remove the Image links... Sorry about that! Scoty6776 18:39, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Good work Edit

Hi Scoty Good work, getting rid of some of the similar categories I've inadvertently created, or were WP has updated to new versions. Sorry if I was a bit off hand yesterday with some of your edits which I know were done in good faith.

SAME is a separate company prior to Same Deutz-Fahr, like Ferguson and Massey Ferguson, so should have separate category. Leyland is a problem one to unravel as initially I used the short Leyland name for the tractor business which causes problems for others that was why group was added for the overall articles. - BulldozerD11 13:50, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

SAME was separate until it bought out Lamborghini and Hurlimann, when it became S-L-H... but it's fine with me. Leyland is a problem child with all of its acquisitions and divestitures with the different business units. My intent was only to clean up some items, especially where there were duplicate or mistyped ones. Thanks! Scoty6776 14:15, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
No problem with the duplicate and mistyped ones - it may be an idea if we let each other know on some of the others our thinking on strategy as we grow, and it becomes better to split some items more. Some of my early choices for naming items were based on what was the 'common' name and suited the initial tractor only groupings but as I started adding the corporate histories and related companies its proved more of a hindrance. Updating in article links will be a pain eventually to sort out. That was part of the idea of adding the ABC group templates like Fiat to help list associated company articles. But some of WP's articles are badly structured or confusing as well. A simple Disambiguate page under the short name may be a solution and turn off the Navigation boxes so the 'what links here' links dont show up in the search temporarily to track them down and fix them.
It may be useful to create and use some more 'tags' like the 'stub' or 'expand' ones to add to some of the pages to auto categorise them if missing different types of info on pages. ?
I'm trying to add blocks of the individual vehicles I have photos of now and Start the individual model articles, whilst adding series and make navigation boxes for the popular makes.
Items were I canot get my own photo of like the Terex Titan can have a photo added from Commons added or flickr if originally tagged with a suitable copyright option. Were getting a few photos from other people but still a bit less than i had hoped.
Every article Ideally needs a photo or image to help illustrate it better.
So plenty to go at with a few hundred makes of tractors to add as well before adding plant manufacturers. So should get to 2500 articles soon to get onto the biggest wikis page. Cheers - 16:45, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Copyright Tags Edit

Hi Scotty

I've updated the copyright tag options to offer more tags for using material that may be copyrighted, but is often posted or used in the media for advertising so use here should be permissible for low res copies, or 'Fair use' could be argued for critical discussion / brand identity etc. rational, with appropriate acknowledgement of source and status of the image.

  • {{Bookcover}} - For small images to use on pages linked to refs to describe the book (freely used on Amazon etc).
  • {{Datasheet}} - Copies of manufacturers literature - Critical discussion use (low res/ small images)
  • {{Promotional}} - For manufacturers photos and illustrations less than 70 years old - (use small / low res versions) - credit source on image page.
  • {{Logo fair use}} - Logo used under Fair use - (only use on manufacturers page (s))

Others have had the description updated slightly on the image license selection box to make selection of appropriate ones easier. (Note:Most auto categorise images into a Master category for that type to allow easy checking / review). Other categories can be manually added to group images.

For items were it is not possible or unlikely to get a photo, adding one from Wikipedia, Commons or Flickr (with a suitable license) is preferable in the first instance.

- Any comments or suggestions for alternative tags or updating the existing ones ? - BulldozerD11 17:20, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

New articles Edit

Some interesting new article from wikipedia you have added recently. But can you add then to either List of xyz manufacturers, or the relevant Navbox (s), as a lot of them link to very few articles. Some of them need more Tractor wikifying as have no 'See also', 'References' and/or lists of vehicle models, starting from what is in the text. The VW ones look very corporate PR and have loads of VW.com linkspam (surprised they have not been slapped with a 'Clean up External links' tag on wikipedia).

A lot of the British articles I have my own photos to add (hence importing article), but a lot of these others could do with a photo or 2 perhaps from wiki commons, or flickr - with a suitable license (I see on the car wiki that there is a tool to find suitable files).

I wonder if the Traktorenlexicon 'create' page can updated to create our individual modelpages faster, as my earlier attempt using a idea from Marvel database wiki did not work (original was too complex code for me to adapt) - http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Traktorenlexikon:_TemplateVorlage - std model page. If you see any good ideas or templates on other wikis let me know, I had a go at a different gallery idea to have 2 columns with a bigger picture and Notes at side, rather than 4 tiny thumbnails, but not got it to work yet - Cheers BulldozerD11 00:25, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I've now added some of the car manufacturer lists. List of Car Manufacturers is the main one, but as the WP lists are split and there are several more missing yet. (Note they are renamed slightly and need updating in layout and lead section on import. - BulldozerD11 01:48, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for updating the Bus and Truck Navboxes and splitting them into Current and Defunct sub groups for the main entries. I'll see if I can find the code to set the group column to a narrower width, or it may be an idea to nest the sections like on the {{IH tractor range}} one so they collapse ? - BulldozerD11 18:20, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Infoboxes Edit

Hi Scoty, You may notice some of the info boxes have changes. I've updated the core code from wikipedia as they have rewrote some like Infobox company, so it should solve some of the faulty bits with it. If you see any pages with a problem let me know please. Ive also hope fully fixed the Tractor box to read current_model = 'Discontinued' if a date is filled in end date field or if No is used in the current_model field and 'Current' if Yes is used.

Only major change visible is the loss of that blue background, which i wanted to change any way, and add a coloured header or a light background to different vehicle type boxes at some stage. Any suggestions for colours for Cars/Automobiles, buses, Construction plant, Steam, tractors, trucks, and military vehicles ?

Did u see the vandal earlier ? if he comes back just undo his edits, and I can delete them later from the edit history. - BulldozerD11 21:50, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Template convert Edit

Hi Scoty, I may have fixed template convert now, as fixed the Unimog pagees problems at last after add ing / updating the code for some of it. Let me know if you find any pages with it used in that still dont work. It now works on length and horse power conversions.

There may still be some sub templates missing for other calcs, but i can add them easily, i just stopped before due to problems.

- BulldozerD11 02:59, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Updates Edit

Hi, scoty, good move updating/moving some firms to a Defunct sub cat and removing higher level category that its included in. But when you add the {commons} link, can you put it immediately under the external link heading as it sits better there than below as the links wrap round it & wikipedia back link goes below the navboxes, rather than bunched up with the commons link. If we havent got a photo for a make we can use the ones from commons as long as we add a backlink on the photos page (either in the license tag or just in the section next to it).
- Thanks, I'll try to do that. Scoty6776
We could also add the company infoboxes were initially they were deleted on import / clean up of articles or if the wp article did not have one. (note: {{Infobox company}} can be used on defunct co pages as it had a couple of extra lines added to merge them). Watch out for some of the old infoxes with the "|" at the end of the lines as it often breaks when cleaning up the links by loosing a "|" , then the next line dose not display.

We may get to 3000 articles by new year if my PC/internet stops freezing and I can get more individual model / machine pages started with all the photos i took this summer. We seem to have picked up a few new editors as well. :)

Good work getting us to 2600 articles with the bus ones. I've plenty of UK/European car and Truck Makers to add as well, but I'm concentrating on the oldest ones first, who tied in with the tractor builders.

- BulldozerD11 22:40, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

ha ha :- I see while i was writing this you have add a photo. works best in the tables with a 150px size and no thumb code (removes the border).
your updates have remined me of some of the photos i've gor to add & how poor some of the early pages were or not completed with uniform headings - BulldozerD11 03:58, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Categorising images Edit

Hi Scoty I see your categorising images so they appear with the articles. I did a few a long time ago and then stopped as if we had wikipedias add cat function that also allow's removal as well so it would be easy to move them, as the structure develops, but adding them to the groupings as is will get out of hand a separate image sub cat by make and machine type etc. I could not decide on adding the Image first or last to the description. Unless we have a completely structured naming convention it will get very messy (like when i original named pages with the short commonly used name and then had to move pages to sort out related companies being referred to within articles). Another on is the early articles with all the refs, templates and links stripped out now need updating.

I'm hopping the updates that wikia are planning will fix the cat function to allow removal as well. I would suggest thinking about the structure first for image cats as a whole, I placed some links on the side bar to main groupings earlier in the year. Note: the steam engines no's are serial numbers not model numbers.

Agree the other makes model lists from Oliver page needs to be in the other makes articles own article, but the summary sections which have 'Main' links belong in the article for context. I split Hart-Parr out from the original WP article and the Oliver Plow Co also could be split out and just a summary left i think (i looked at it yesterday when i updated some of it from WP). I split some of the MF one from the original as we have far more to build on companies with model listing. Some of the model listings are now so big a seperate page is called for again with the main models series listed and significant individual models in the main article.

When following some wp articles i think they have lost the subisary histories after bad mergers when stubs were merged into related articles instead of being left to grow or after corporate name changes editors have in good faith trimmed sections down to reduce the signifcance in the belief that the current corporate name is the main feature of the article and adding too much of a 'news / pr' emphasis of current events.

I agree that they images need categorising into groupings but what main structure will work long term is unclear.

Suggestions ? - BulldozerD11 00:35, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

re Richie wiki Edit

Thanks.

Yes I edited a couple of articles on it as a trial to remove rubbish. I could not find anything about copyright status on it so was reluctant to use it but the model listings are probably good for the newer plant stuff and a lot seamed well referenced, had a US bias to what was featured. It appeared to start about when I started this site. I've not been back for a few months (or more). At the time i decide id stick with WP for material as defintly GFDL / CC licensed for re use.

I'll have another look and see how its developed some time. Some history sections with a re write or model lists would help fill in some of the gaps for large plant we have. It came up in some searches I did at on stage, but not lately but then its mainly construction plant on there when i looked.

I think they started in August 2008 when I started this in April 2008 !

You can add any similar general web links, forums etc to the Web Site Links page if you find any. I've not added any recently.

- Thanks BulldozerD11 22:02, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back Edit

Hi Scoty Thought you had given up on tractors as you went very quiet on editing for a bit with just occasional edits !!

I've updated the {{Infobox Tractor}} template so the page U are using to create new pages could do with an update as several items are missing (canot remember which one now it is) & new user Edrob is using a much updated version designed for the older models he is adding. I'm trying to get it to auto categorise the pages using some of the items listed in the template, so some older pages may have duplictes or have a fault in the years introduced section, as i added date linking into the template code, so linking the date in the article 'mucks it up'. I changed a few of your recent new pages with images as the image "Thumb" code makes them huge with a border & so set then to 150px like the other tables with images in as the cells get too big, with loads of white space at 200 or 250 px that thumb displays at.

Great to see you have found a lot of new Middle Eastern & other manufacturers to add or expand the articles for with more models. we appear to have a steady stream of IP editors adding blank or proforma pages with no real content after wikia made creating new pages 'simpler' - BulldozerD11 20:15, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's been awhile. I did do a little editing under an IP address when I forgot to re-log in a couple of times! (lol) I'm trying to fill in some smaller, interesting manufacturers. I'll pick up the new template(s), and adjust the images. Thanks!
Cheers With Ed's additions we should get to 5000 articles well before Christmas then & sooner if i can get some of theother page creation tools fixed that i was trying to do and a good gallery template or wikia fix the new built in one & i start all the Steam engines own pages to use up some of my stack of photos thats built up. - BulldozerD11 22:33, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Housekeeping Edit

Hi Scoty as you keep cleaning up the categories I've updated you to Admin Status so you can delete the bad ones and also move pages without leaving a redirect (remember the incoming links may need updating then from 'what links here' list on the old page). Also you can delete the odd bits of spam / useless pages with no real content in them that we get occasionally from IP editors following red links and then clicking save (if they have created several add {{Uw-test}} to there talk page).

Note the 'Defunct companies of x country' categories should also be a sub cat of the 'Companies of x country' as well as in the 'Defunct companies of y' cat, so they are easy to find. They were not created originally other than for the UK and USA as i was avoiding creating to many sub cats with few entries in but you are right to split some of the bigger European countries down now as it is clearer. - BulldozerD11 00:21, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

New Look (skin) Edit

re you post on my talk page - (longer reply here)

Unfortunately only individual users can select monobook for there own personal use, as Wikia removed the option for admins to select other skins for the whole site for logged in and IP users. You can update the colour scheme for every body as an admin but the old one we had went (it disappeared before when they added some new options but i found out how to get it back that time) - i tried to find something similar to the old one this time. The ToS was changed to prevent admins from modifying the skin for all user of each wiki to remove elements and change the width. (indivisuals can change some of it in there personal user:name/Wikia.css).
The Monobook side menu needs fixing as it does not have the multi-level popouts of Monaco. I copied the old one (MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar) in to the MediaWiki:Sidebar but it needs fixing up to make it usable. I was on Monobook for abit but the stuff at central was not working in it so i switched back ti new wikia, but with dome tweeks to my personal CSS page - User:BulldozerD11/wikia.css to give a bit wider view and remove some bits but its still rubbish (several users have posted various 'fixes' on central). I'm still inclined to move Host but I'm not impressed with the alternatives & hope that like some of the other upgrades wikia then fixes some of the issues after a bit. I may self host but dont know how much space and bandwidth we need and am not an expert at programming to sort it all out as it involves a number of different programs to actually run the media wiki software on a server. BTW according to the new version of special:Statistics we are the 160th biggest Wiki and the biggest in the Auto category by number of pages (And we would be a lot higher by now if we had stubs like alot of wikis and didnot delete all the empty pages created by IP editors), and I had not stopped adding individual vehicle page when they announced the changes & i saw how horribly cramped it looked. The biggest problems to me are loss of Navigation from the side bar and the cramped page width + forced display of image attribution in pages unless the non-thumbnail version of images is used (as in the tables & infoboxes), + the over bearing links to other wikis and the recent Activity box (a usless version of recent changes) that first started appearing on the new style hubs). Some of the former Widget items were useful as well but have been dropped. The light blue looks wrong in the nav boxes now so if you have any ideas for a new shade for the box headers try it out in some. - BulldozerD11 18:12, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

categories Edit

I see your adding a category to all the 'redlink' category pages but you appear have forgot to define them with a description of what they are about/the content type. Now they are not red links how will we find them to add a definition ?

P.S. empty pages are better deleted than adding a {{stub}} tag, unless a basic intro and back links to the source article are added. They need to tell the visitor more about the subject item than was in the article they followed the link from or have additional images. I usually delete contentless pages after a couple of days if created by an IP editor as the user is just testing & sometime I add the {{uw-test}} to there user page if they created several but may have missed the odd one at times. -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   22:31, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Spring clean up - help Edit

Hi Scotty after you cleaned up a (very large) number of the missing categories recently i've decide to have a spring clean and after clearing out the Uncategorised article list have now started with 'missing' templates (of which there were well over a 1000+ originally). What is also a problem is missing icons from wikipdia/commons. These are often in SVG form and for some reason I canot save them to my PC and then upload them (it creates a weird .svg.png. file extension sometimes) and tring to change the templates dosent always work. Could you see if you can add the missing images/ icons from the wanted list to 'fix' some of these templates were they are missing svg files please. I can probably sort the .png and .jpg ones my self. - Thanks   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   18:19, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

- After looking and trying various things, I found that if you go to the images page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PD-icon.svg, for example, under the image is the file name "PD-icon.svg". You can right-click on that link and "Save Link As..." and save as .svg file. Pretty easy now! lol Scoty6776

Thanks I see you got a load of them. Yes the direct to image links best, but for some reason MY PC dosent offer SVG as a file type to 'save as' but it will display them ?? very Weird as it lets you save them as .png but then they are .svg.png which sometimes act up & people say they are corrupted when i did upload some on another wiki. (there may be some on here like that). I wonder if its as Im on windows XP not Windows 7 ? -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   01:47, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
Mine works for to 'Save As', but only on the actual file link. I am running XP as well, so that's not the issue. However, I've read that if you are using IE (Internet Explorer) there has to be some add-on downloaded to work with .svg's; you can still view them, but not load or something. I'm using Firefox which works. Scoty6776 19:50, February 15, 2011 (UTC)


Overview articles Edit

I been thinking with the complex changes in some markets and multiple 'brands' coming and going a country / regional overview article would tie them together. The Tractors in India article you did a lot of work on for wikipedia ties a lot of the articles for India together as a good overview. An alternative / quick er way to tie them up would be a country / regional navbox listing companies and brands for the areas like China, Argentina (South America), Europe, India, Japan (Asia) and North America ? -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   22:03, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I've been thinking that, too, especially for China and the mixup those companies are!Scoty6776

Problem templates Edit

Hi Scoty - You may find some templates acting up / looking odd. I just tried using the import function on some images and templates and the option to import linked templates has brought in new versions from wikipedia & commons that have over written the existing ones !! This may case issues with some of them and it messes up the tractor wiki categories used in place of the wikipedia ones. The Image import test appears to have brought in the related file page data such as summary info and licence templates but not the actual image !!

Looks like my manual copy & paste methods slower initially but less troublesome in the long term to clean the templates/articles up as they are imported to 'tractor wikify' them. I was hopping it would solve the issue of missing attribution data on the images but it looks like it casues a bigger mess.

Thanks for reducing the wanted images list, you made more impression on that than my attempts at the category & template ones they seem to be getting longer at times. -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   15:49, March 30, 2011 (UTC)


Hi Scotty: Thanks for the quick reply to my message. Obviously this is my first time on the site attempting to unscramble the history of the International Harvester Company-now defunct,and more specifically the B414. It was so frustrating at it was all interwinded with Farmhall,Case,etc. It was clear in the early 1900's but as the decades went by the tractors were made in other countries such as the B414 which had the Diesels made in at least two factories in England and the Petrol (gas) in Illinois in the USA. The more search leads to more complexities and it even appears that in the late 1940's that the Patent for this tractor (B414) was sold to,I think the Mahindara Company in India and that "some parts or frame or both" are still used in the new tractors.

One thing for sure is that MOST of the new Tractors will not last for a century as many of them need work before they are even sold such as rust everywhere and seats falling apart and cracked plastic.

Finally,your site is SO confusing for newcomers,especially 74 years olds. It would be great if we could be sent to a VERY BASIC PAGE like a CLASS 101 and be able to read and download a HOW TO DO ANYTHING PAGE.I had no idea what I was doing.This is not a reflection on your site as it is excellent. It is only very distressing and one wants to get away and out of the maze which is not really ever there.Thanks for the welcome

Re:updates Edit

Found this interesting logo you uploaded in the DAF article.

Daflogo

DAF Logo ???

oops !!

Thank for the many recent uploads as you have made a big impression on the missing images list (its surprising how many were/are still missing).

Some of the 'new' articles could do with a bit more editing to the layout so they are not just straight wikipedia clones, as they are missing std sections or are in the wrong order even for wikipedia. I've also note a lot have had the {{wikipedia}} tag added in the References section rather than after the External links and navboxes.

I've worked off most of the missing wikipedia templates from the wanted list its now back down to about only 500 after increasing at times faster than it went down as i added new ones that called more templates. (I left a few as thjey will add lots of new ones to the list of wanted templates) I'm now looking at creating the missing group and model range template links I added to many new pages ages ago. Hopefully you can fill out the (missing) model details in some of them for the many obscure brands in India and China etc that you added lots of model pages for.

Well done on taking us past the 6000 article mark but can you fill in some of the missing background articles for vehicle types and defining terms used and common components that are linked from articles. You have recently done some 'definitions' for things like Sport utility vehicle and Mini MPV etc. It will be a few years before the BMW X5 etc are 'classics' vehicles.

Now i've rebuilt my PC (after the HD failed) I'll have to try to upload some of the 1000's of images i've taken already this year all ready and write the missing Event articles and associated exhibit lists for them, as i think i will never get all the 'wanted list' pages cleared at current rate no mater how long i spend on them.

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   01:46, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

PS we will soon be in the top 100 biggest wikis if we keep growing at this rate, as there are 1000's of tractor models still missing and a lot of brands/marques, as i keep finding new ones at shows but no info on them.


Congratualtions Edit

Well done getting the list of wanted photos down below a 1000. Some of the missing ones now are some of mine that either had problems during uploading last year or other changes wikia made to the system have stopped them displaying (some have 'bad' characters in the name). If they are in the format File:somedescription - place - IMG 1223.jpg I can probably recover them from one of my old hard drives. Perhaps place {{image lost}} on the file page ? so the description & name is retained & the a category can list the missing images.

Note the files with geographic-UK (mainly used in the museums list) need the full license / source data copying from wikipedia/commons as they are from a 3rd part site copied to wikipedia and require better attribution of the original author/creator. A lot of the museum ones I cut out of the list (using comments) to remove the entry for any that is unlikely to have historic vehicle, machinery or items of interest to the wiki. i.e art galleries and natural history museums etc (historic houses often have a few items of relavance hence not deleting the entries completely)

The templates required list has stuck at about 500 + templates needed as creating the range and group templates is a slow job (note some of them I have deliberately not created/copied yet as the need/limk to many others). I still need to find a better way of doing the PML table/page idea so they can be created from a placeholder template like how the {{Documentation}} one works but in article namespace rather than the template namespace.

The redirects on country pages dont work but ultimately we can write a short summary article of material relating tho that country that is on the wiki with a notice containing a link to its wikipedia page like the {{commons|sunject}} links.

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   17:13, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

Progress Edit

Good progress filling in some of the missing ancillary articles, but still a lot left defining car types and vehicle parts etc e.g V8 engine or Executive car, sports car, brakes and so on.

Not sure but i think List of locomotive builders and related articles are going a bit far off topic !! (says the man who yesterday added several rail locos to the Leeds Industrial Museum article - but their was a method in the madness - list was incomplete, i have photos of them & several were built by fowler and other Leeds firms also involved in building other plant/machinery and its material thats not from wikipedia etc).

I've created a template to link back to wikipedia like the commons one for the country pages {{See wikipedia}} & similar were copying the page brings too much non relevant material in but we can eventual create s page linking to some of the relevant articles on here that are country specific, as a index/summary page for each country.

I've started to cut down more the museums list pages to remove art galleries, cathedrals and such that have no engineering exhibits, but stripping the links out to places as i go is very tedious, so only doing them is short batches. Lincolncath and similar are not really worth copying. Commons has lots of other more usefull images that are not used on english-wikipedia that we can use in some articles such as tractors, steam (traction) engines, cars and plant and machinery like i found for the Broyt article.

BTW i also found on here a load of Zetor photos you uploaded and didnt use yet (+ a load of stuff i need to use as well) - Special:UnusedFiles - some have 'bad' names and others IP users have uploaded with no proper name & not added them to pages or added license info.

When i get through this cleanup of missing templates i must update the lists known of steam engines with the photos recovered from my back up drive now i have space on my new HD to store them locally.

- Happy editing theirs well over 10000 pages wanted last time i looked at the list before we added a lot of lists of car models & alot of the tractors and truck makes dont have lists yet !! -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   20:16, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

--- I may have gone overboard, although the power plants on locomotives ARE pretty impressive! I'll take a look at photos loaded but not used, and try to clean some of mine up. Thanks! Scoty6776 19:07, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Agree some are impressive (but i dont want to be seen to be taking over the train Wiki as well as cars & trucks) ;) - I've got some photos some were from the Anson Engine Museum were they have some bits from some locomotive engines and scale models that are bigger than most 'normal' engines. Other museums are re-building the engines up and then putting the building round afterwards with some big industrial engines I've seen. Museums are one of those bits how far do we go ! I started copying the list's as easier than starting new ones (not really when its taken hours to clean the lists up from all the non relevant entries & over-linked place and district names that they have !!).
Aircraft are another spin off area the have connections to a lot of the engineering companies due to war work or engine building. But I'm going to stick to just adding museums with military vehicles and the odd aircraft photo. These peripheral topics should catch a few more viewers via search engines.
Think I've got most of my photos back from backup drives just got to find the usable one from the 110,000 that apparently I have now I've sorted them out a bit, luckily not all are vehicles or are usable as it would take years to upload them with descriptions.
Found the template wanted list actually went up rather than down again even though I had added several model range navboxes (some are empty BTW) and replaced some others by a 'place holder' template.
Now do I start with oldest first or latest and work backwards listing stuff seen at events and in museums ? or go by manufacturers. I'd better add yesterdays new photo uploads to the articles before I forget them. -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   20:13, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

RE:County & leyland-marshal etc Edit

Well done finding photos of some of the missing model and adding pages for them, but a few points;

  • you forgot to add the {{County range}} navbox to the pages & some models may be missing from it. (a lot of other makes still need a "Make model range" navbox creating for them - timelines would be nice but they are a pain to create and would probably only work for major model series groupings eg for MF & Ford tractors).
  • several models are duplicates / variations e.g. County 754 and County 754 Super-Four which followed on from the original County Super-4 but using the newer skid unit - some early 754s had the super-4 badge
  • please credit the photos to the author &/or source web sites they are from when using other peoples photos under fairuse as they are less likely to complain about copyright.
  • We probably need a Copyright tag for Brochures and manufacturers publicity photos (i thought we had one ?) as they were published to be re used. we have {{Datasheet}} for datasheets/specs from manufacturers.
  • Each (main) model should have its own category into which all the individual tractors of that model go and photos can also be categorised into (unless there are loads then they can go in a Images sub category for the model - like wikipedia often has "xyz make vehicles" as a sub cat of "xyz make"

Note: Wikia has messed up categories by making them appear as a valid link even if not 'defined' instead of as a red link as they now think if it has an article/item in it it has 'content' (Another DUMB upgrade again).

P.S - If you add a wikitable of models to a manufacturers page its abit odd having a duplicate list as well - probably better to copy the extra data in the list into the table if possible in the Misc notes section (use last column after the Photo as the photos keep getting cut off/up by Wikias stupid collapsing width tables idea if in the end column) !! & (re)move the original list to a new "List of xyz make page" if its complex - the model development hierarchy gets lost in the straight table sometimes (I also think sub models i.e A, B, C versions or MkI , MkII and MkIII etc dont always warrant a separate page duplicating the same basic history in most cases, they can just have a section detailing spec changes, like the car pages do).

Ritchie wiki has some makes and photos we can use for some missing US firms we are missing as long as its not copied word for word & they are credited as a source.

I'm currently trying to work down the "Unused Photo" list having abandoned the "Wanted Categories" reduction drive following this weeks Wikia 'System Upgrade'.

- 10000 pages here we come (by Christmas if we can get another 24 hours per day and a few more editors ) -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   00:00, July 1, 2011 (UTC)


hey man where did you get that pic of camp foster in the tsb motor pool? I think i gave that class. if you were there then i guess i should tell you who i b. McGuin. if you have any other pics of around there please send me some as i lost mine when tmo lost all my things. mcguin.robert@gmail.com thanks for your time. good times that okitraz

Re:Commons/Wikipedia & Geograph.uK images plus progress reiew Edit

Hi Scotty i notice some of the recent images from commons /wikipedia are originally from Geograph.uk like this one: File:Tractor_on_Ridge_Lane_-_geograph.org.uk_-_802657.jpg

To comply with the original geograph license they need a back link (to original Geograph source page & Author) for Attribution. The easiest way is to copy all the license page infobox from commons/wikipedia as it is included within it, just some of the internal wiki links need updating to point to wikipedia instead of :en: or :w:

I wish wikia had a tool like the flickr one to upload stuff from commons and other CC by SA lisenced sites to cut down the hassle of adding license data.

Some of the other files under fairuse could do with a source backlink really such as stuff from farming photos, forum & from auction sites.

The whole license adding set up is probably the worst bit of wikia as non of the upload pages work particularly well & on some its completely hidden. After i've 'fixed' the categories (which is another thing that getting harder since wikia hid redlink categories and stopped the Popups gadget from wikipedia working) I am going to categorise a lot of the photos better, but that will mean creating separate image sub-cats for popular makes and models. But hopefully the AWB Bot program can do some of that. -   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   12:05, October 26, 2011 (UTC)


ProgressEdit

Good work with the large articulated tractor makes and models you are adding there are 2 good books covering them. Ultimate Tractor Power by Peter D. Simpson Pt1 & 2.

P.s dont forget to add the model-range templates place holder link to the manufacturers page and any individual models even if the template does not exist yet. I've got a number to create for several brands of car and truck as well as part of the wanted template clean-up to-do list.

I'm trying to fill in alot of the missing terminology articles at the moment (based on wp versions, with a bit of a copy & layout edit and adding new photos were i have suitable ones as they are a bit mixed quality but its easier than scratch writing a duplicate).

I've added a lot of the missing 'country data' templates but could you please add the svg images of the flags for them. I'm working down the missing JPG & PNG files in articles in small batches.

We should hit 9000 articles by the end of the Month and also pass the 19000 photos mark at current rate of progress !! If i start adding individual vehicle articles we should also hit 10000 articles by the end of the year and 20000 images, but i what to fix some of the back log on cats & templates first but they keep going down and then jumping back up.

I also have a number of shows and museums to add articles for before adding all the exhibit photos i have.

Do you think we should just add stubs for all the missing brands/ makes or wait till we have a reasonable amount of info to start a page ?

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   12:05, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I have info on most of the missing brands; it's just getting it in there! Working on it though. I've been trying to recruit new editors from Farmphoto.com and other sites. Haven't been real successful, so it seems.Scoty6776 15:50, October 26, 2011 (UTC)
So i see - you've added a good few pages today !! taking us past the 9000 mark !! The more info we add the more related material I find is missing as i go off looking at other sites or reading books and articles in magazines ! I keep finding more museums and shows to visit & get photos from of more vehicles and machines i not heard of before.
I've gone back to posting onto a couple of the British Forums to get this sites link back on view in my posts so new visitors to see as i had dropped off them over the last 6 months after my PC died & lost all my logins & PWords.
New recruits appear to be a problem as I think people like forums or photo sites as its just type & click to post. I think Wikia.com's attempt at 'improvements' to make Wiki editing easier are causing more people to give up.Trying to help people is hard when they ask for help as there are several ways of doing stuff and different ways of seeing the site. Most of what we get from anonymous (IP ) users recently is 'empty posts' were no real content was added just the RTE 'tiding' the code (& often messing it up), others are adding a few minor bits as an edit summary & when it does not appear in the page they go away. (possibly thinking its like some blog sites were a mod must OK it before its published) ? When the category button was added a lot tried posting by that - possible thinking it was a sort of Quick post or Blog comment sort of thing - I think thats why wikia tried adding the article comments to new wikis instead of Talk pages (which they are now looking at changing to'Message Wall' some sort of Facebook style idea from what i've heard at central. (which is not popular based a lot of user comments - the feeling being that wikia should stick to being a wiki and stop trying to be a 'social network' clone). Blogs were another idea that has failed on most wikis along with Chat.
I had thought of doing a template to post on the new IP editors pages but could not think of suitable wording to use for the message, to be welcoming but point out they had not actually added any usefull content, just a meaningless edit summary in a lot of cases. Any suggestions ?
Wikia's Stats say we are getting 5>10,000 page views per day (~ 50,000) per week. which looks good but is only 1+ per page per day really so i'm not so sure.
-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   19:54, October 26, 2011 (UTC)


Congratulations Edit

Hi Scoty

Tireless Contributor Barnstar The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For great work adding new Photos and articles for missing brands and individual models.

  BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   14:10, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Progress Edit

Hi Scoty great work with missing images and new tractor pages and categories you have added recently. We will soon be at 11K articles and 25K images. According to one of Wikias stats pages before they withdrew it we were just outside the top 100 English Wikis by page nos. I see the wanted images list is below the 1K mark now after you recent efforts. Wanted pages must be well past the 10k point were the list unfortunately cuts off at.

Re - images

Please add the full source info for the Geograph UK images from wikipedia as they MUST have the author etc for attribution under the CC-by-sa license that they are under. It was/is possible to import the license & description pages from commons / wikipedia first then add the images to it but last time i was trying to do it Wikia had broke the import/upload functions so there are now about 30 image description pages without a actual image floating about i think (with the wanted file list re-sorting every time you re-load it i lost the list of files). (Note copying the commons / wikipedia image data to imported images at upload time alos adds the categors - suitably updated/cut down - saving going back and adding them latter).

As i find image pages with no license i'm currently taging them with {{No license}} & categorising them. (i tried to find how to do it with a Bot but have not found out how to do it. I'm also deleting any that are taken from other web sites without a valid 'fair use' claim and source link. Please warn any new users you see uploading images without a license they MUST add a copyright license template and if claiming 'fair use' state the source for all images uploaded per Wikia Terms of Use.

Note: Wikipedia are re-structuring some sections of there categories & converting them to hidden for ones that are for 'managing' pages rather than navigating content. mainly "Categories named after xxx" > "Wikipedia categories named after xxxx" Which becomes "Tractor Wiki categories named after xxxx" etc. on import to here

I'm migrating images to sub-categories in section were there are (likely to be) large numbers of images e.g [[category:'make' vehicle images]] rather than [[category:'make' vehicles]] as used on commons.

I'm trying to follow complete category trees through from commons /wikipedia were they have a long term relevance. A lot of the date related categories are created with templates that add sub-cats and tables of closely related dates (unfortunatly they canot be just copied straight to each page but need a few dates adding manually for each one.

Let me know of any cats which dont make sense or are duplicates (beside the obvious 'Typo' ones I add when i dont proof read properly - should be less common now that the Categories show up in preview box when editing with red links for non existent ones at last).

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   20:44, May 3, 2012 (UTC)


Imported articles Edit

Hi Scoty Congratulations on taking us past the 25000 image mark.
Thumbs-up-icon

I see your now filling in some of the many wanted articles with versions from Wikipedia. But i notice some are not to our Tractor Wiki standard layout - i.e Intro > History > models >> etc >> Preservation (TW addition for vehicle pages) > See also (shows, clubs, reg non list of etc) > Refs/sources >> additional reading > External links (Commonscat link) actual extern links - (WP & TW model range templates / timeline templates / company or group template / manufacturers navbox templates) then {{Wikipedia}} finally followed by stub templates and the Categories. The Wikipedia template keeps appearing in the Refs section for some reason ?? (very early on I put "Wikipedia" in some refs sections as text when there was no refs

PS Fiex one Jag page that was displaying all wrapped up - it was down to faulty line breakes with the infoboxes <b/r> instead of <br> sometimes its missing closing bits to <span class="plainlinks"> </span> within templates, as Wikipedias version of mediawiki 'fixes' it internall when processing them but wikia does not.

We may get more problems with 'old' templates as Wikia moves to HTML 5 code. I may need to get help to fix them as i dont know HTML very well and we have alot of 'old' templates from wikipedia that may need some updating to the code. Please Add {{Faulty-page}} to any pages you see and {{faulty-template}} to templates doc page then we can find them easily later - These templates currently dont exist yet but i can add a category to them to get a 'hidden' maintenance list to track them. (A check box in your preferences makes hidden cats visible to you in page view mode - IP uses dont see them on the pages)

I'm working off all (most of) the missing Categories and Geograph UK images to import and other buildings and museum items with complex attribution templates along with associated categories for the images, but at times the wanted category list gets longer rather than shorter. I found Importing the copied data into the wanted images page via the wanted images red link then just add the photo when it tell you its missing after saving the infobox and categories (after fixing links to commons / wikipedia) etc saves typing it into the upload boxes manually. (I tried importing blocks of data using the Import pages function but you then still had to 'fix' it manually + save and copy each image).

Can you add some of the missing SVG files such as flags and maps again (dont worry about the BSxxx Icon ones they are mainly for the doc pages to some rail, canal and tramway route templates that appear in only a couple of articles currently which if id realised were so complicated i would not have bothered with them)

Templates wanted are back below 500 but most are only wanted on 1 or a couple of pages and are vehicle PML or range lists or timelines i need to create. (i'll replace some with a placeholder message)

PS: we are currently about the 95th biggest English language wiki according to stats page here when you sort the list (big > small) we are nearly as big as Disney Wiki and bigger than the Harry Potter & some popular Game wikis now. BTW we have in excess of 10,000 wanted pages !!!

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   20:58, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


how can i contact to u on facebook want to talk to u ans me when u see my comment

Deleted categories Edit

I see you have been having a clean up of categories - deleting a number but some I'm confused as to why as you are not leaving a summary of why you have deleted it !! e,g. Category:car manufacturers of Brazil when we have a series of similar cats - Category:Car manufacturers of China etc. below (This was a alternative to Automobile manufactures of 'country'.

We do have a number of 'duplicates/similar' categories in part due to differences between wikipedia and Commons - xxx in yyy vs xxx of yyyy and them updating/changing the structure/naming conventions over time.

It may be better to just tag them {{Cfd}} and then we can look at the bigger picture and block move the articles to a relevant category.

I keep working on defining missing categories related mainly to imported images, which results in strings of virtually empty categories due to a large number of images not being categorised yet as thay do not have the associated information template and categories imported as well as newimages not being categoriese yet due to the Wikia upload feature being rubbish when bulk uploading, or adding images during article editing.

Thanks for adding the last batch of missing images, I just need to add the missing info templates and categories now to them.

We should soon get to 30,000 images if we fill in more of the missing articles and add the individual articles for a lot of the 4000 steam engines in preservation, a lot of which i have several images for, along with the many missing vehicle models.

I had a month off due to loss of computer hard drive and am having to recover my image library & sort it out from old copies which is slow.

  BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   11:24, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks!Scoty6776 (talk) 13:33, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Re:New Infobox Edit

Hi Scoty - New infobox looks good. Main thing missing i think is header/cutter head options size(width) and type. Fuel type ^ tank size is probably best at bottom of engine section, rather than in transmissionsection. The no. of straw walkers and sieve no/area could be another addition. Not sure if anything specific needed for rotary type (i'vnot had anything to do with them). The 'class' item must be a US thing like your large trucks ?. Plow rating & nebraska test appears in last example !!

A few notes (hidden comments <!-- like this one here -->) on the copy and paste list on doc page may be an idea for help for future editors and to explain terms & remind user not to delete unused entries. Due to size of list it may be an idea to make it collapsible in parts later along with the tractor one. We also need one for 'plat' ut deciding what to incled to cover all main types is tricky (wheeled and crawler machines and dozer, loaders, excavators etc with different bucket/blade capacities etc.

BTW we are the 97th biggest wiki at the moment (now wikia stats are fixed to allow sorting again)

I think once we get past say 150 - 200 hp machines probably best categorised to nearest 5 or 10 hp as figures are nominal and depend on standard used anyway so are variable & we dont specify which is used.

P.S. for multiple images on some pages i'v started using the slider gallery option, rather than adding a 2 coll table or a plain gallery. do you think it looks less cluttered ?

-   BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   00:54, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

re:image display problem in some articles Edit

I've updated {{infobox automobile}} to match WP version for the image section - They had changed it last year some time looking at the history. It shouldn't need File & a size adding to each entry now. let me know if there are problem pages with templates then i can check the versions/history to see if they have been updated.

WP keep changing templates which means some imported articles & navboxes break. (A major change to how navboxes wrap lines is one problem still to be solved) Some are changed/modified when the main Mediawiki software is updated, but Wikia dosent always update there version to match wikipedia at the same time, other templates have there features recoded due to changes in other linked templates.

  BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   18:15, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hi!

I am interested in using a picture you have posted on this page: http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Chainsaw as I am creating a chainsaw safety tutorial that will go on DVD for use at our company. The first picture is the one I am most interested in using, then maybe the one with the chainsaw teeth as well.

Would you be able to give me permission to use these photos or let me know where you may have picked these up from?

Thank You!!

71.180.243.8 21:54, May 27, 2013 (UTC)Xandia

Requesting permission to use photograph Edit

Hello Scoty6776,

I am a Production Coordinator at Two Penguins Productions in Portland, OR. I am writing to request permission to use a photo found on this wiki at:PMA_AFAQ_II_combine.jpg

I felt a strong connection to the photograph because it shows the tractor and its machinery in all its glory.

Two Penguins would like to ask for permission to use this photo as a backdrop in one of our company photographs. We are doing an entire series for the company, each employee with their own special image that speaks to their unique personality. All of the images are to be printed in high resolution on our imagePROGRAF printer and then used as a background (much like a greenscreen, but with a more organic feel).

This image would be one of a select ten photographs used as backdrops in this series. It would only appear on our website and would not be used for profit in any way. For example of how your work would be showcased, here is a shot we did using Elvis's poolhall in Graceland as a backdrop for an ongoing social media project of ours: http://instagram.com/p/nO5-a_CLzW

Feel free to check us out on Twitter (twitter.com/twopenguins), Facebook (facebook.com/twopenguins), Instagram (instagram.com/twopenguins), or our website at twopenguins.com.

Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns about usage of this image. We would love to be granted permission! Thank you so much for your time and dedication to this wiki!

Best,

173.11.14.218 17:41, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Kyle Simmons

kyle.simmons@twopenguins.com

Remaking your wiki's skin Edit

This message also appears on the talk page of your colleague, BulldozerD11.

Heya :)

What an amazing wiki! I've seen a lot of wikis about a variety of subjects, but few have this level of passion. As someone who's been around Wikia since the beginning, I can't help but be impressed. I'm glad you stuck around after the Wikia skins changed in 2010 and continued to add great content. You've turned this place into a genuine resource.

And, hey, I can totally understand that you would have preferred Monobook once Monoco went they way of the dodo. A lot of my users at w:c:tardis — I'm a bureaucrat there as well as a Wikia employee — stuck with Monobook. But what we found was that, as we worked with it more, and as Wikia improved it more over the years, it became a skin that had just a ton of possibilities. We've restructured our front page dozens of pages now, and no two designs really look the same.

Also, the functionality of the Wikia skin has fundamentally changed since 2010. Most importantly, it's now a responsive design — something that was changed as a direct result of the initial rollout in 2010. So it changes depending on whether you're looking on a phone or a tablet or a widescreen TV. It's much more visually appealing than what you might remember from 2010.

Another important point that we came to understand was that most people see the Wikia skin. You have to have an account, be signed into it, and then actively change to Monobook before you can see Monobook. The casual reader of Wikia — the person not logged on, using their computer from school or work — is always and only going to see the Wikia skin. So it's really important to make sure that your site has a good Wikia design, particularly on the front page.

Your site is getting big, impressive numbers of views. That's no doubt thanks to the great content you've already made. But I think we could get even more people interested in the site if we could remake the front page and basic color palette of your site's Wikia skin. It would be really great if we could work together to give the place a little bit of a facelift!

Please let me know what you think of this idea. If you want to go ahead, you can immediately start given me ideas as to what content is absolutely vital to your front page experience, and we can start mapping out a fresh start for your Wikia skin! — CzechOut @fandom 23:02, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

p.s. Since we don't know each other, I suppose I should give you a little portfolio of my work. I've done a wide variety of makeovers, but these will give you an idea of the things I've done:
As you can see, they're pretty different from each other. I've tackled everything from serious social issues to sports to kids entertainment. Hopefully the range will spark your interest in the new potential of the Wikia skin.
Hi again :) I haven't heard anything back from you yet so I just wanted to pop back in and check whether you've had time to think about the above offer. — CzechOut @fandom 19:31, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

HI I WAS INTERESTED IN THE FORKLIFT PHOTO YOU HAVE ON YOUR PAGE, CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY INFO ON IT MAKE, YEAR, MANUFACTURER, THANK YOU BETTYH

hi you have a black and white photo on your page of a forklift can you give me any info on it, i.e. make, manufacturer, year etc. thankyou BETTYH

Hi i was interested in the black and white photo of an old forklift you have on your page, can you give me any info i.e.manufacturer, date, etc as i know of one similar thank you grannybmh

Question Edit

Hello Scoty6776,

I came across this wiki and have a question about your Yanmar tractors page (http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Yanmar_tractors). The reference listed on this page is http://www.yanmartractor.com/index.php/yanmar-tractor/home/top-links/about-yanmar/, but the link is not currently active.

Did you happen to keep a hard copy of this webpage from your original research? Thank you.


71.89.129.226 17:57, September 4, 2014 (UTC)Sara


Never mind - I found what I was looking for :-)71.89.129.226 18:32, September 4, 2014 (UTC)Sara

Hi Scoty6776, I work for John Deere and I really appreciate your page of "John Deere Combines". I was trying to start a similar page on Wikipedia and luckily I found your existing work here. What made you choose this site over Wikipedia? --Rzhang06 (talk) 13:25, February 22, 2017 (UTC)


Many thanks Edit

Hello Scoty, many thanks to help with some things about the argentinian tractors, combines and construction machinery. You can also help with creating more articles about this? i'm a little busy with Pesados Argentinos. You can obtain information freely, without having to ask for any permission.

Best regards!

Reg no. related categories Edit

Hi Scotty Good to see your back helping clear up missing categories, but can you leave the Category:Registration numbers by area code - XX ones as they link a table on Vehicle registration plates of the United Kingdom which has info on which area they are which im adding to the category as i create them in batches by area. But now you've create a number of them with just putting them in Category:Registration numbers by area code,. I dont know which are missing/incomplete now. I created a few way back but then stopped to look at using a template header on them to make changes easier and then gave up and started creating them manually for the ones with several articles categorised in them but their are over 450 to do.

UK registration pate formats have changes several time and the area codes overlap with the Republic of Ireland for the steam engines and early vintage tractors. Age letters were added from 1965 on wards in UK as a suffix and then as a prefix.

PS: Id also left the ones at the top of the wanted cat list related to steam engines by type by reg no. PS: If adding the Category:123 (registration number) series category to article pages please also add the Area Code cat even if redlink.

--BulldozerD11T (talk) 14:33, February 1, 2018 (UTC) - BulldozerD11 (MSG from my alt account, as had issues logging in on my main admin A/C on a different PC) BTW - Got to go out back online later. !!

Morton Traction Truck Edit

I am trying to find the owner and the year of manufacture of the IHC Morton Traction Truck/Tractor that I found a picture of on a Rough and Tumble 2017 web page. It's the shiny restored one.

I am a volunteer with the Agricultural History Farm Park in Derwood Maryland and I believe this same vehicle was at our show in April, 2017. I want to put a picture of this on our Plaque for our 2018 show. It may belong to a Douglas Breese of Glenville, Pennsylvania. It may be a 1907 vehicle?

Please help.

my phone number is 301-325-4612. my email is mshirven@yahoo.com

RE:Monobook skin Edit

Hi Scoty Just seen your msg about monoskin. I've not been on the wiki for weeks so not seen any thing about it, but its demise/phasing out was talked about a long time ago on centrals forums (or what ever its called these days !!!) If its been retired permanently then there is probably a new Fandom (Wikia) customised interface version coming which is incompatible, and a fork from wikimedia/wikipedia's code. The other year they added the new module coding system for templates from wikipedia which are a bit more like a plain English based programming language.

I'm using the non visual interface were you can type in the text manually, cut and paste and use wiki code directly rather than the visual version which hid it from users. I'll have to go and look at the main Wikia / Fandom pages later in the week. When i refreshed the 'Wanted page' list i had started from, the header was Wiki blue rather than its usual colour from our colour scheme, but now on your talk page its back to normal colour scheme !!.

When i have problems accessing wikia, i'm not sure if its my slow laptop (too full), Internet problems, Or wiki's servers acting up again, !! I've not found wikia easy to use for editing via a tablet as cut and paste to move stuff dosent work for me, so spend less time on site than i did.

Got a huge backlog of photos to add as show season over here now weathers better.

--BulldozerD11T (talk) 02:07, May 31, 2018 (UTC)

After visiting central ive found its down to the new European data regs ( allegedly) - see here [1] related to the advert serving code / user tracking features linked to the skins code.

--BulldozerD11T (talk) 20:41, May 31, 2018 (UTC)


I'm testing out [https://dev.wikia.com/wiki/PseudoMonobook] Scoty6776 (talk)

interesting, i'll have a look at that. Thanks --  BulldozerD11   talk    contribs   08:52, June 26, 2018 (UTC)
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